tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post4612441469761939806..comments2024-03-27T06:07:20.345+01:00Comments on ボクの事件簿: False TruthHo-Linghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04673330638260132388noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-32055927596755249042017-06-07T22:22:12.377+02:002017-06-07T22:22:12.377+02:00As far as I could find. There may be more, lost to...As far as I could find. There may be more, lost to the internet and it's ways. And I see the "samey" bit, it was funny, but I wasn't sure how long they could keep up the gag before it got stale. And yes, review!<br /><br />The Dark OneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-72309339621731103752017-06-07T10:29:03.596+02:002017-06-07T10:29:03.596+02:00That series is brilliant. That is indeed a show co...That series is brilliant. That is indeed a show completely built around false solutions, where the true solution is ignored for commercial reasons (need to fill the broadcast time!). Man, I really should've mentioned it here...<br /><br />They only subbed four of episodes? That's a shame! Both seasons do feel a bit 'samey', but it's just a hilarious show built completely around the concept of abusing detective tropes and false solutions. <br /><br />Perhaps I should rewatch it and write a review...Ho-Linghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673330638260132388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-66545410534033551382017-06-07T10:14:32.896+02:002017-06-07T10:14:32.896+02:00Now that I've watched what I assume are the fi...Now that I've watched what I assume are the first four episodes of 33 Minute Detective (all I could find subbed!), I think that everything out of Rokuro's mouth counts. The "solutions" to the locked rooms in episodes 2 and 4 need to be included in the Hall of Fame of locked room solutions, if there is one.<br /><br />The Dark OneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-51391453223308844332017-06-04T00:32:11.147+02:002017-06-04T00:32:11.147+02:00Interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, the l...Interestingly enough, if I recall correctly, the lead actor and actress for liar game also appeared in 'Hana Yori Dango', and the discrepancies in the characterisations, especially for the girl, played tricks on my mind... :P Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389512470283015279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-59764033902914524372017-06-03T15:16:16.093+02:002017-06-03T15:16:16.093+02:00The thing with Berkeley's book is indeed dat S...The thing with Berkeley's book is indeed dat Sheringham is the Foil Detective (w/o him knowing), and there's often no real detective within the narrative, so the reader is given that task. It does lead to the problem of how to unveil the truth to the reader in the end though (the scene cut to the real murderer), but that's a different narrative problem with detectives, I think.<br /><br />The false solution which is "better" for all those involved is a nice device, I have to admit, and they can give much more meaning an otherwise "mean" trick played on the reader. With Orient Express though, I think the alternative solution is a bit weak though, as it's more like a collection of various red herrings strung together, rather than a truly cohesive tale (but again, it works in the context of the tale).<br /><br />And glad you like Liar Game! It's really interesting to view the show as a mystery drama, and I think it does a great job at actually conveying fairly complex concepts in an understandable manner to the viewer too.Ho-Linghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673330638260132388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-70124969481534390872017-06-03T14:17:52.062+02:002017-06-03T14:17:52.062+02:00In terms of false solutions by way of an alternati...In terms of false solutions by way of an alternative sleuth functioning as a foil to the lead detective, the first thing that came to mind would be the way Anthony Berkeley uses this trope. While the assumption in, say, 'Murder on the Links', would be that Poirot would emerge triumphant, holding onto such a presupposition with Berekeley's novels often comes back as a slap in the face. Then again, holding onto any presupposition when it comes to reading Berkeley often comes back as a slap in the face. Another novel that does something clever with the 'alternative detective' trope, in a different way from Berkeley, would be 'Mystery of the Yellow Room'. <br /><br />The only Christie novel I felt made significant use of false solutions would be 'Murder on the Orient Express'. It was one of the very first Christie titles I read when I was still a child... And when I re-read it as an adult it struck me that as a mystery novel it wasn't quite as strong as some of the other, lesser-known, Christie titles. But what now strikes me would be its similarity with Christianna Brand's 'Fog of Doubt' - where the multiple possibilities are more than smoke-screens to outwit the reader, but to engage the reader's emotions. For the deceptions are ultimately staged for the protection of those who turn out both innocent and flawed. And the deferring of the revelation eventually render the truth all the more heart-breaking. <br /><br />P.S. Ho-Ling, I've on the brink of concluding my viewing of 'Liar Game' (season 1). It's engaging and clever, but it's real strength, I feel, is the surprising and effective transposition of the Golden Age murder mystery and the Honkaku/ Shin Honkaku tradition into what is otherwise a Battle-Royale-in-Money-terms drama series. In a way, Dagonronpa plays a similar game, except that the money discourse is replaced by a post-apocalyptic discourse. Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389512470283015279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-21573423264485306162017-06-01T08:58:49.674+02:002017-06-01T08:58:49.674+02:00I think that Greek Coffin, as always, shows how a ...I think that Greek Coffin, as always, shows how a good false solution should come to be: the logical chain only leads to a faulty conclusion because it's missing a vital clue, not because the process itself is faulty. Add a clue, and the conclusion should change. So a false solution should ideally be "the best solution in the eyes of the character proposing it, considering their knowledge". Their theory should cover basically all, or at least most of the relevant questions in an acceptable manner.<br /><br />I think that the Ellery Queen TV drama showed this aspect well too: Ellery often had one clue more than Simon (sometimes obtained by Ellery's own detective work, sometimes by coincidence), and that would give him the advantage over Simon. In Kizoku Tantei, the female detective often overlooks more obscure clues, giving the Aristocrat Detective an advantage. Her overlooking some vital clues is okay in this context, as as the Foil Detective, she is a subsitution for the to-be-deceived viewer (so the creators want the viewers to miss those clues).<br /><br />The whereabouts of knowledge (= range of possible actions/theories) thus becomes an important factor to support viable false solutions, and that's traditionally been more of a factor in Queen/logical reasoning-based school mystery fiction than other schools, which is probably why they work better there i general.Ho-Linghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673330638260132388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-40427288823382276222017-05-31T20:25:50.837+02:002017-05-31T20:25:50.837+02:00What Greek Coffin does so well is make you think t...What Greek Coffin does so well is make you think that you've spotted something <i>really</i> obscure and clever...and then whip the rug out from under you by going "Haha, we wanted you to think that...". Berkeley does a similar thing time and again in Poisoned Chocolates, but it's almost like Dannay and Lee know exactly what you're going to think each time...that's why that book is do highly regarded, because it's insanely smart in what and how it discloses.<br /><br />The difficulty a lot of false solutions have is they don't consider certain aspects to that point: they'll frequently refer to six of the nine points and ignore the other three, so you know full well it's going to be nonsense. You're not being fooled if you're sat there going "But, he was stabbed in the front, how did the murderer get close to him..." and it's never addressed. I'm sure there are others that do it brilliantly, too; I shall get my thinking cap on...<br /><br />And, yeah, I've never warmed to Sayers. I still want to read Have His Carcase for the impossibility, because I'v not got to that one yet, but damn is it ever a long book!JJ @ The Invisible Eventhttps://theinvisibleevent.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-29462881991655450872017-05-31T18:34:53.998+02:002017-05-31T18:34:53.998+02:00I think that ideally, any fake solution should alw...I think that ideally, any fake solution should always be part of the final solution, like how it's done in The Greek Coffin Mystery or the Kizoku Tantei drama, as it doesn't feel like a total fake-out. I don't mind them being revealed as fake early (or late) though: the goal is to fool the reader, and I think that both options of either revealing it late, and then the true solution, or revealing it early (thus giving the time for the disappointment to settle) and then the true solution have their merits.<br /><br />And despite me mentioning Kizoku Tantei (The Aristocrat Detective) again, I never could stand much of Sayers....Ho-Linghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04673330638260132388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8031063966272508587.post-4490756851536884492017-05-31T15:03:41.577+02:002017-05-31T15:03:41.577+02:00The difficulty I have with a lot of false solution...The difficulty I have with a lot of false solutions is that they frequently come far too early, so you <i>know</i> that it will be wrong. Christianna Brand starts offering them from about two-thirds of the way into Tour de Force, and for all their implied cleverness you know it's not the sort of book where that willbe the solution and the focus will change for the last part, so it feels like a waste.<br /><br />That said, The Crooked Wreath has one of the best fake-outs ever used, and drops it right at the end, so it's not like it was beyond her. Carr does a similar thing in The Crooked Hinge, but the false solution there irrtated me because I thought it was the real one and it's <i>terrible</i>!<br /><br />In terms of getting around the foil detective, or having someone lose face (and Berkeley's use of Sheringham for exactly this is one of my favourite things in the whole of GAD), I think Sayers' The Unpleasantness at the Belona Club uses it best: the fake solution comes halfway through the book, and its flaseness is used to setup the entiure second half. It's a brilliantly clever piece of plotting, and makes the turgidness of that second half (and the eventual resolution) even more of a cruching shame...JJ @ The Invisible Eventhttps://theinvisibleevent.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com